Chevalier at The Baccarat

[Adrian]

I mean, just read the emp cookbook vs noma manresa or el bulli and it's obvious. The building of the sauces, the appendix at the back with the puréed and sub recipes, etc.

 

It's gimmicked up and San pelligrinoed, but it's a modern French restaurant.

[mitchells]

So there aren't any "American" restaurants? What makes a Spanish restaurant Spanish?

[mitchells]

Is Stone Barns French?

[mitchells]

I don't have the cookbooks but the online images of the food at Manresa and EMP are hard to tell apart.

[oakapple]

The reality is the French technique forms the core of almost every four star, non Japanese restaurant. . . .

 

True, but you wouldn't call Momofuku Ko a "French restaurant," would you, even though David Chang once worked at Café Boulud and continues to use the techniques he learned there?

 

I agree that French technique has informed the cuisine of all the Western nations. It doesn't make those places French restaurants.

[Adrian]

So there aren't any "American" restaurants? What makes a Spanish restaurant Spanish?

Sure, look at a recipe from gramercy or blue hill. There are French nods in both, but compare the just smoked trout at gramercy to the smoked sturgeon sabayon at emp or the fried soft shell crab over course potatoes with aioli at gramercy to emp's duck with a side of braised duck with pommes puree, red wine reduction and foie.

 

you have a very hidebound idea of French food.

[Adrian]

 

 

The reality is the French technique forms the core of almost every four star, non Japanese restaurant. . . .

True, but you wouldn't call Momofuku Ko a "French restaurant," would you, even though David Chang once worked at Café Boulud and continues to use the techniques he learned there?

 

I agree that French technique has informed the cuisine of all the Western nations. It doesn't make those places French restaurants.

I did not say that, did I?

[oakapple]

 

So there aren't any "American" restaurants? What makes a Spanish restaurant Spanish?

you have a very hidebound idea of French food.

 

All I believe him to be saying, is that a restaurant isn't French, just because its chef uses some techniques that the French originated. Otherwise, you are left to argue that Del Posto is a French restaurant, which is just ridiculous.

[oakapple]

 

 

The reality is the French technique forms the core of almost every four star, non Japanese restaurant. . . .

True, but you wouldn't call Momofuku Ko a "French restaurant," would you?

 

I did not say that, did I?

 

No, but I am struggling to grasp the principle you are trying to assert. You seem to be saying that if the chef uses French technique, then it's a French restaurant. David Chang uses French technique.

[Adrian]

I am saying that if you look at the food and service at emp, and if you have eaten at a modern French restaurant in the last decade, it is clearly and obviously a French restaurant.

 

I am also saying that significant French technique is almost a necessity for a four star non Japanese restaurant. Of course, that doesn't make those restaurants "French".

[mitchells]

Just trying for more data points:

 

Manresa is or isn't French?

 

Per Se is or isn't French?

 

Alinea is or isn't French?

[Adrian]

Manresa - not French, but not that far from it.

 

Per se - yeah, French.

 

Alinea - have not been, but I highly doubt it's French.

 

Look at the cookbooks for each.

[mitchells]

Manresa - not French, but not that far from it.

 

Per se - yeah, French.

 

Alinea - have not been, but I highly doubt it's French.

 

Look at the cookbooks for each.

 

The NY Times says Per Se is American. And they classify EMP as American, French, New American

 

I've been to all of the above except Alinea and frankly I believe their styles are similar and would not consider any of them French.

[Adrian]

based on what? All of Kellers signature dishes are French. Manresa is borderline, but Kinchs dishes look to bras, passard, and Japan.

 

I've given you a criteria - look at composition, technique, and ingredients - what's your criteria? That the waiters say bonsoir?

 

Eta: only the nyt could make foie torchon American.

 

Eta 2: how do you convince people to visit your French restaurant? Call it American.

[Anthony Bonner]

its sort of weird thing right, because doesn't basically all western fine dining derive from the french canon? Even high end italian? Like literally the restaurant is a french invention

 

Like I get both arguments.