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Chevalier at The Baccarat


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its sort of weird thing right, because doesn't basically all western fine dining derive from the french canon? Even high end italian? Like literally the restaurant is a french invention

 

Like I get both arguments.

I agree. But that's why manresa is hard - there are some dishes you'd never see at even a modern French restaurant (compare - Kinchs mussel w dashi v passards vegetable raviolis). But literally every dish in the emp or French laundry cookbook is unmistakably trad or modern French as are almost all the techniques.

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I saw that the Baccarat's bar is opening tonight. No date yet for the main restaurant, Chevalier. This is the place Charles Masson will be running, with Shea Gallante in the kitchen. Modern take on

I recall the good old days when I went to a restaurant for the food. Now I have all these other things to worry about to determine if I had a good time.

I've been to that downstairs bar twice, and both times got a seat with no trouble at all.   I went upstairs only once. The bar was such a madhouse that a guy in a suit wouldn't even let me in the do

 

its sort of weird thing right, because doesn't basically all western fine dining derive from the french canon? Even high end italian? Like literally the restaurant is a french invention

 

Like I get both arguments.

I agree. But that's why manresa is hard - there are some dishes you'd never see at even a modern French restaurant (compare - Kinchs mussel w dashi v passards vegetable raviolis). But literally every dish in the emp or French laundry cookbook is unmistakably trad or modern French as are almost all the techniques.

 

wasn't Kinch's signature dish for a while a Bras hommage?

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Thomas Keller himself is American. He was trained in French technique, as was almost every Western chef you can name. His menus nod towards many different cultures, one of them being French, but not exclusively or even primarily so.

 

I would doubt that most of Per Se's guests think of themselves as going to a "French restaurant" when they go there. I would also doubt that if any French person dined there, they'd be likely to say: "Ah, feels just like home!"

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Thomas Keller himself is American. He was trained in French technique, as was almost every Western chef you can name. His menus nod towards many different cultures, one of them being French, but not exclusively or even primarily so.

 

I would doubt that most of Per Se's guests think of themselves as going to a "French restaurant" when they go there. I would also doubt that if any French person dined there, they'd be likely to say: "Ah, feels just like home!"

And humm is a euro who trained at one of the worlds great French restaurant cooking dishes that use almost entirely French technique. But the restaurant has been smartly recast as something else for the reasons we've argued over for 60 pages.

 

No, a french person would think lots of things but would see that the cuisine is recognizably French. Chang plays homage to lots of cultures, Kellers restaurants basically cook French food with American ingredients and Americanized service. Look at the cookbooks and basically everything is French in a way that the manresa or ko recipes aren't.

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Thing is, just about all (western) restaurants are French (and some eastern ones too). Chefs and menus and courses and...well, dining is just a French invention.

 

All discussion we have here relates to tweaking the French invention slightly. Someone saying "Monsieur" has much less to do with restaurants being French than the kitchen brigades, the sous chef, the order of the courses, and the very concept that there's more to restauration than filling your face.

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I see AB already made my point.

 

Within the universe of all western restaurants, almost all of which are essentially French in derivation, there are sub-sets which consciously reflect the cuisine of this or that country. So EMP, Per Se, Gramercy Tavern, and Le Perigord are all French. But Le P is French French, if you see what I mean.

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Thing is, just about all (western) restaurants are French (and some eastern ones too). Chefs and menus and courses and...well, dining is just a French invention.

 

All discussion we have here relates to tweaking the French invention slightly. Someone saying "Monsieur" has much less to do with restaurants being French than the kitchen brigades, the sous chef, the order of the courses, and the very concept that there's more to restauration than filling your face.

Absolutely.

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I see AB already made my point.

 

Within the universe of all western restaurants, almost all of which are essentially French in derivation, there are sub-sets which consciously reflect the cuisine of this or that country. So EMP, Per Se, Gramercy Tavern, and Le Perigord are all French. But Le P is French French, if you see what I mean.

Yes, that's true, but The food at most "French French" places doesn't actually look much like French restaurants in France or Quebec - they're non seasonal, they have both cassoulet and bouillabaisse, etc. they're almost like American Chinese or Indian restaurants in that respect. And they look nothing like modern French places.

 

Meanwhile, it's not hard in all cases to look at the dishes served at gramercy tavern, emp and luksus on a menu and categorize them, with relative ease, as American, French, and New Nordic without even seeing the recipe. Of course, both gramercy and luksus use French technique and kitchen structure, but the substance on the plate makes it pretty clear.

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