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Biodynamic vs Organic vs Natural vs Orange (oxidative) and Orange (skin contact) wines

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I have to admit to being quite puzzled as to how you could not have vineyard intervention.


A matter of degree, obviously, and sort of discriminatory against some climates. 


While faking old bordeaux requires actual wine, I recently had a very easy time convincing friends that red sorrel wine (not in the jamaican sense, but actual juiced red sorrel leaves, wine yeast, sugar, limited co2 release) was a red pet nat from the loire. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Ptipois

Ok, if Jancou is your reference I can see where you'd get the cocaine story  :D


No, not from there. I wasn't aware of that. 


Whatever Jancou sniffs or not, he always was one of the most knowledgeable, sensible and open-minded promoters of vins nature

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Pretty funny New Yorker piece about orange wine:


The overbearing boldness of orange wine is too diverse to categorize. Some are nutty and firm, like weird sherries, and some are briny, some brightly acidic, and some highly herbal. Some suggest a Carmen-Miranda-headdress spectrum of fruit. At a wine bar where all the descriptions somehow read like Allen Ginsberg’s grocery list, I tasted a Sicilian example said to evoke “copper kettles, chamomile flowers, Ricola popsicle.” Its finish prompted the question, “Is that a note of melon or is it a hint of Goodyear rubber?” By their nature, these wines very much open up as they breathe, slowly revealing subtle glories, or else gradually becoming slightly less bad.


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Now we know what it is!

“We analyzed 34 natural wines and found two had residues, including a wine which came from a famous natural winemaker,” he said in an email from the Loire. “We do not want synthetic chemistry in natural wines.”

You didn't analyze well enough. At least 20% fraud by now.

Aaron Ayscough, a blogger who is also the wine director at Table restaurant in Paris and is writing a book on natural wine, argues that labeling like “Vin Méthode Nature” asks a lot of small producers and nothing of large industrial producers.
“It’s fundamentally regressive, because it puts the financial and administrative burden of proof on small-scale, artisanal natural winemakers rather than on industrial wine producers,” he wrote in an email. “It would be way more effective to mandate that all wine producers, natural and conventional, list the ingredients and processes used in their winemaking, and let consumers make the verdict about what’s natural enough for them.

Right, except I don't even think listing ingredients and processes is helpful or likely to happen.

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Serving pet nats, and some very different ones, to people who don’t care, and consistently they are accepting them as some kind of cider.

I’ve had a few I’ve enjoyed but if I were drinking blind it might as well have been some sort of fancy beer.

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