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59 minutes ago, Orik said:

Recipe: 1 Johnny tofu, 1 tsp shiboritate soy, 1 tsp

Flip tofu onto plate, add soy, use tsp to eat. Avoid overly excited hand gestures as tofu might slip off plate.

I didn't know what Johnny tofu was...

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imported from Kyoto, Japan. For someone like me, who tends to regard tofu as either soft or firm and as lacking personality in particular recipes, this brand is a revelation. It’s on the firm side, with the silky texture of custard. And it has a playful side: The packages, which come in single servings or a group of three, have dude-worthy names like Johnny Tofu, Three Guys in a Row and Strong Ken

But Flo Fab does!

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I asked you in another thread if you enjoy eating this food. Your answer was basically no, but there was a lot going on in your life (don't have time to look for the posts right now). I understand you

It's just too easy to tear this stuff apart for it to be fun, Daniel, but I salute your efforts to be better. 

Serious question for @Danieland I'm not trolling: How do you reconcile being a vegan for the reasons you mention and then selling meat and dairy in your stores? 

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2 hours ago, Daniel said:

I understand that you do not care how animals feel.. Does that mean if you were to witness someone beating a dog, you would not care?  Like it wouldn't affect your day at all..  Then we are just going to say that we are fundamentally different..  

Remember there are no dogs because there's no dog food, so you can't beat them. 

But while normal people don't like killing or torturing animals*, they accept that this happens to produce the cheap pork cutlets and chicken breasts they buy at the supermarket, just as they accept the human suffering and damage to the planet that's associated with farming the vegetables they nuke. And while the animal suffering caused by humans is just a tiny fraction of the predation cycle in nature, the damage and suffering caused by farming is 100% human.

 

* although predictably they grow used to it very quickly if it's their job

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43 minutes ago, Orik said:

Remember there are no dogs because there's no dog food, so you can't beat them. 

But while normal people don't like killing or torturing animals*, they accept that this happens to produce the cheap pork cutlets and chicken breasts they buy at the supermarket, just as they accept the human suffering and damage to the planet that's associated with farming the vegetables they nuke. And while the animal suffering caused by humans is just a tiny fraction of the predation cycle in nature, the damage and suffering caused by farming is 100% human.

 

* although predictably they grow used to it very quickly if it's their job

Right, so you and I are in agreement.. There is no way to justify eating meat outside of saying, Fuck it, I like to eat meat.  That is all I am saying.. 

And with regards to farming, it takes like 16 pounds of grain to make 1 lb of meat.. So, you and I also agree that farming is destroying our planet. 

 Dogs can live on a vegan diet.. 

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There's no justification necessary, it's something we can do and like to do, and in fact we like it so much that it was the reason for a couple of million years of increasingly sophisticated stone tool development. And yes dogs can live on a vegan diet and they'll be about as healthy and happy as humans living on a diet of raw rutabaga.

You don't need any grain to produce meat. Spain has thousands of red cows roaming free and eating a diet of grass on the shore of Andalucia, and of course goat, sheep, pigs, etc. have always been raised that way or on farm waste. You need grain to make meat quickly and on the cheap. You also don't need to cut down the rainforest to grow soy or to make palm oil, but it's cheap to do so.

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On 11/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, Orik said:

 

But while normal people don't like killing or torturing animals*, they accept that this happens to produce the cheap pork cutlets and chicken breasts they buy at the supermarket 

I am not so sure about that.. I do not think that most people are aware of where their food comes from and how their food is produced, or how they animals are treated... 

I think people see cows in the field and they are like, oh, that's where my meat comes from.. Or they see a pig on a farm and that's where they think their pork comes from.. There are these happy cows cartoons everywhere.. The truth is, there are these industrial facilities that are absolutely hellish..

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1 hour ago, Orik said:

There's no justification necessary, it's something we can do and like to do, and in fact we like it so much that it was the reason for a couple of million years of increasingly sophisticated stone tool development.

And I am saying, the justification is obsolete because of all that sophisticated advancements.. We no longer need to eat,  breed, feed, house, torture and murder 77 billion animals a year. 

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Daniel, I think that, as a species, we've chosen to set up systems to feed ourselves without (or with minimal) regard to the suffering it causes other species.   That you want to make a dent in that is admirable and will, no doubt, keep causing you angst because it'll never be 100%.   As an individual who has chosen to eat meat, I think that I'm certainly part of a system that causes harm to other sentient beings.  Of course, I feel even worse that I'm part of a system that relies on other human beings suffering to produce just about everything I use.  We suck... as individuals we try to choose how much and in what ways (well, many of us do).  Its unavoidable.  Just my cynical jaded 2 cents worth.

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3 hours ago, Steve R. said:

....I'm part of a system that relies on other human beings suffering to produce just about everything I use.  We suck... as individuals we try to choose how much and in what ways (well, many of us do).  Its unavoidable.  Just my cynical jaded 2 cents worth.

Pretty much nailed it.   We can each stop minuscule transgressions as it assuages our consciences, but we as a first world society have already made the choices that are determinant.   

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There is no way out of entanglement. The only responsible course is to deny oneself the ideological misuse of one's own existence, and for the rest to conduct oneself in private as modestly, unobtrusively and unpretentiously as is required, no longer by good upbringing, but by the shame of still having air to breathe, in hell.

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16 hours ago, Daniel said:

I understand that you do not care how animals feel.. Does that mean if you were to witness someone beating a dog, you would not care?  Like it wouldn't affect your day at all..  Then we are just going to say that we are fundamentally different..  I can't really recommend any cookbooks or blogs as I don't follow any.. The minimalist baker is a one I have come across.  But, that is really the only one I can recall. 

 I apologize; I was exaggerating and being that my dog is my substitute child and spoiled as much as a golden retriever who is a therapy dog to boot could be, of course I have standards. 
 

I do buy all my meat from a local butcher. Same with seafood, I order from Local 130 Seafood. I don’t think that makes it better but it supports local, small businesses during a pandemic. 
 

  I suppose I wasn’t raised to think about the emotions of the meat origins that I consume. I don’t think that’s unusual for someone my age, raised in NJ and not on a farm. 
 

I’m not necessarily asking for specific recipes, fortunately tofu is inexpensive and I enjoy it. 
 

  I do find it a bit ironic to be lectured about the consumption of animals when you’ve documented multiple pig roasts, meats most Americans wouldn’t eat, and sell animal meat.  
  
it’s cool you found what works for you but I have to wonder what your mindset was when you ate meat. Did you think about the animal that died? Or did you stuff an apple in a pigs mouth and had fun with said pig? 
 

It comes off as preachy and the assumptions that meat eaters are “in denial” about the “cruelty of eating meat” from someone who used to eat a lot of meat. 
 

  Just because you can’t imagine people who eat meat may not think “fuck it, I like it and I don’t care about animals in general” doesn’t make it a reality. 

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All your arguments continue to point to one solution - rid the world of animals - no more greenhouse gas, no more land utilization, no more suffering, no more pandemics. Can you explain why having animals around is good at all other that they're cute sometimes? 

 

 

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