Jump to content

Paris Bistros, Restos


Recommended Posts

I don't think omnivorette ever forgave me for learning Maine lobster isn't THE BEST.

 

But oysters is just a story of a corrupt, dysfunctional distribution system that's actually been getting worse (like when did you last have an oyster in nyc that you thought was spectacular?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

As I think Orik said, "it is that time again."   I will be in Paris for a few days in the beginning of December, any recommendations? New ones, old standbys? Places to avoid?   I have a bunch o

I suspect Bruni or Paglia wrote that review.

Had lunch here last week and it was so good I've booked dinner for next month!.   Added bonus of being right by the metro on the 8 line.

One more observation as a purely outside observer, and then I'll stop.
 
Just based on what I'm reading, it doesn't seem to me that it differentiates the new Paris places from NBC that the Paris places are serving "tradition on a plate".  The NBC places at least pretended to do so; it was part of their schtick.  Remember all the menu listings of "Hamburger steaks"?  All the revivified vernacular American cuisines?  All the revived "lost" ingredients and cooking processes?
 
It seems to me, from the outside, that the key difference is that in France they have a great culinary tradition, and in America we don't.  And, perhaps, that the great French culinary tradition -- I mean great sub-haute stuff, the kind of stuff I try to cook at home out of Elizabeth David and Richard Olney and Elisabeth Luard -- never died out as part of the menu of cosmopolitan high-end diners the way the "revived" American ones did, so the "revived" versions in Paris don't seem as discontinuous with the prior norm (cuz they aren't).  But that doesn't mean that the current fashion in Paris isn't part of the worldwide trend emanating from Brooklyn (as the seemingly similar places in Scandinavia make no bones about being).
 
As this is not based on recent Parisian experience, I'm not asserting the above as correct.  I'm asking the Paris diners to tell me why it's wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites

(like when did you last have an oyster in nyc that you thought was spectacular?)

I can actually answer that: it was at the bar of that strange ill-fated restaurant that Dave Santos cooked at in the Northern Village several years ago. Maine belons.

 

I had some Maine belons at the Grand Central Oyster Bar at the end of the Spring or the beginning of this Summer. They were pathetic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One more observation as a purely outside observer, and then I'll stop.

 

Just based on what I'm reading, it doesn't seem to me that it differentiates the new Paris places from NBC that the Paris places are serving "tradition on a plate".  The NBC places at least pretended to do so; it was part of their schtick.  Remember all the menu listings of "Hamburger steaks"?  All the revivified vernacular American cuisines?  All the revived "lost" ingredients and cooking processes?

 

It seems to me, from the outside, that the key difference is that in France they have a great culinary tradition, and in America we don't.  And, perhaps, that the great French culinary tradition -- I mean great sub-haute stuff, the kind of stuff I try to cook at home out of Elizabeth David and Richard Olney and Elizabeth Luard -- never died out as part of the menu of cosmopolitan high-end diners the way the "revived" American ones did, so the "revived" versions in Paris don't seem as discontinuous with the prior norm (cuz they aren't).  But that doesn't mean that the current fashion in Paris isn't part of the worldwide trend emanating from Brooklyn (as the seemingly similar places in Scandinavia make no bones about being).

 

As this is not based on recent Parisian experience, I'm not asserting the above as correct.  I'm asking the Paris diners to tell me why it's wrong.

 

This is kind of it. The best of New American was, of course, either the really good Chang stuff (modern and smart integration of various "ethnic" cuisines into a European/American model) or the reconstruction of actual North American vernacular cooking (Sean Brock and the new southern chefs, McMillan (though not American, obviously)). But there is a distinctly international style that has emerged. After our meal at Marg & Bein in Bergen, our feeling was that we could have been in Paris(ish). Which is a great compliment, but also a statement about what constitutes a smart restaurant these days.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course he's correct (in the first few moments), but if you visit produce markets in any country you will see a peculiarity and seasonality for that locale.    In France, white asparagus twice as thick as your thumb; purple artichokes; crosnes; cauliflower the size of an apple; mushrooms of every ilk.    Down south, into Spain, nuances of peppers...and pigs.    Name your country and season and you will find differences that spill onto the restaurant menu.    Apologizing for this, but Brooklyn, eat your heart out!    Stealing your style, perhaps but imbuing it with the distinct personality of what the countryside provides.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

L’ambroisie is tweezer fuss now?

Look, these are both phenomenal restaurants.  But if you ask me which of those two restaurants I'd prefer to eat at and pay for, yes, L'ambroisie is tweezer fuss.  The two restaurants are not DRAMATICALLY different in price point, but I drink much better (and cheaper) at Table and I just have more fun and committing to going to L'A is a huge pain in the ass.  I don't need prettier presentations with more tweezers than Table can offer.  Life also never comes down to do I go to L'A or Table, but I wish it did.

 

 

Instagram tells me that Pacaud was partying with Bruno at Table last night, but I think he would have confirmed that they have a single tweezer in the L'Ambroisie kitchen. 

 

My recollection was that the top of the Table menu was about 75% of the bottom of the L'Ambroisie menu, where the cheapest dish was like 100 euro. Google confirms (Table turbot is 89 euro,  random L'Ambroisie menu on Tripadvisor has the cheapest dish at 98 euro, but going up to 210 for the truffle-foie tart). Certainly, my credit card statements suggest a dramatic difference between the two.

 

It's all kind of beside the point. Again, limited sample, but Table was a really lovely place with world class ingredients and a chef with phenomenal taste and the good sense not to muck anything up. But it's not comparable (nor should it be comparable) to the technical magnum opus that L'Ambroisie churns outs, which is manifestly unfussy. Each dish has no more than three or four components, everything is basically organized around a central protein, cooked traditionally, there are very few garnishes, etc.

 

Like I can understand why one might balk at the somber, formal setting and prefer to hunker down at Table for a more casual experience - I might and often do make the same call, if not at quite such a rarefied level - but there's a lot of work being done here by cultural factors, and levels of comfort with different kinds of experiences.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Old friends recently dined at L'A.    Asked what they had been served, they couldn't remember a single dish, but said that everything was wonderful and service perfect.

 

More current friends dining at Table and peers can relate chapter and verse of their meals.   

 

Go figure.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

L’ambroisie is tweezer fuss now?

Look, these are both phenomenal restaurants.  But if you ask me which of those two restaurants I'd prefer to eat at and pay for, yes, L'ambroisie is tweezer fuss.  The two restaurants are not DRAMATICALLY different in price point, but I drink much better (and cheaper) at Table and I just have more fun and committing to going to L'A is a huge pain in the ass.  I don't need prettier presentations with more tweezers than Table can offer.  Life also never comes down to do I go to L'A or Table, but I wish it did.

 

 

Instagram tells me that Pacaud was partying with Bruno at Table last night, but I think he would have confirmed that they have a single tweezer in the L'Ambroisie kitchen. 

 

My recollection was that the top of the Table menu was about 75% of the bottom of the L'Ambroisie menu, where the cheapest dish was like 100 euro. Google confirms (Table turbot is 89 euro,  random L'Ambroisie menu on Tripadvisor has the cheapest dish at 98 euro, but going up to 210 for the truffle-foie tart). Certainly, my credit card statements suggest a dramatic difference between the two.

 

It's all kind of beside the point. Again, limited sample, but Table was a really lovely place with world class ingredients and a chef with phenomenal taste and the good sense not to muck anything up. But it's not comparable (nor should it be comparable) to the technical magnum opus that L'Ambroisie churns outs, which is manifestly unfussy. Each dish has no more than three or four components, everything is basically organized around a central protein, cooked traditionally, there are very few garnishes, etc.

 

Like I can understand why one might balk at the somber, formal setting and prefer to hunker down at Table for a more casual experience - I might and often do make the same call, if not at quite such a rarefied level - but there's a lot of work being done here by cultural factors, and levels of comfort with different kinds of experiences.

 

I'm just sayin', even Pacaud just wants to eat a sliced tomato in this heat.  

 

Can we get a few of our Parisian friends chatting here?  I know this has been a tough forum for a long time, but it would be great to see some new ideas and perspectives from people who know what they're talking about (Sneak, you're gonna have to come to Paris to update your POV).  

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

L’ambroisie is tweezer fuss now?

Look, these are both phenomenal restaurants. But if you ask me which of those two restaurants I'd prefer to eat at and pay for, yes, L'ambroisie is tweezer fuss. The two restaurants are not DRAMATICALLY different in price point, but I drink much better (and cheaper) at Table and I just have more fun and committing to going to L'A is a huge pain in the ass. I don't need prettier presentations with more tweezers than Table can offer. Life also never comes down to do I go to L'A or Table, but I wish it did.

Instagram tells me that Pacaud was partying with Bruno at Table last night, but I think he would have confirmed that they have a single tweezer in the L'Ambroisie kitchen.

 

My recollection was that the top of the Table menu was about 75% of the bottom of the L'Ambroisie menu, where the cheapest dish was like 100 euro. Google confirms (Table turbot is 89 euro, random L'Ambroisie menu on Tripadvisor has the cheapest dish at 98 euro, but going up to 210 for the truffle-foie tart). Certainly, my credit card statements suggest a dramatic difference between the two.

 

It's all kind of beside the point. Again, limited sample, but Table was a really lovely place with world class ingredients and a chef with phenomenal taste and the good sense not to muck anything up. But it's not comparable (nor should it be comparable) to the technical magnum opus that L'Ambroisie churns outs, which is manifestly unfussy. Each dish has no more than three or four components, everything is basically organized around a central protein, cooked traditionally, there are very few garnishes, etc.

 

Like I can understand why one might balk at the somber, formal setting and prefer to hunker down at Table for a more casual experience - I might and often do make the same call, if not at quite such a rarefied level - but there's a lot of work being done here by cultural factors, and levels of comfort with different kinds of experiences.

I'm just sayin', even Pacaud just wants to eat a sliced tomato in this heat.

 

Can we get a few of our Parisian friends chatting here? I know this has been a tough forum for a long time, but it would be great to see some new ideas and perspectives from people who know what they're talking about (Sneak, you're gonna have to come to Paris to update your POV).

Wtf? I’ve been to both of those restaurants (and a bunch of the others on this list. responding to a legitimate post with insults is why discussion dies around here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I mean telling someone the description of a meal they ate is gag inducing is just fine, but being told you're factually wrong about something is reason to storm off and keep ranting about it to everyone forever :)

 

I do agree it's better to talk to people who actually have dined at the places discussed and who don't have an agenda whereby only a specific class of restaurant is even worth discussing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

L’ambroisie is tweezer fuss now?

Look, these are both phenomenal restaurants. But if you ask me which of those two restaurants I'd prefer to eat at and pay for, yes, L'ambroisie is tweezer fuss. The two restaurants are not DRAMATICALLY different in price point, but I drink much better (and cheaper) at Table and I just have more fun and committing to going to L'A is a huge pain in the ass. I don't need prettier presentations with more tweezers than Table can offer. Life also never comes down to do I go to L'A or Table, but I wish it did.

Instagram tells me that Pacaud was partying with Bruno at Table last night, but I think he would have confirmed that they have a single tweezer in the L'Ambroisie kitchen.

 

My recollection was that the top of the Table menu was about 75% of the bottom of the L'Ambroisie menu, where the cheapest dish was like 100 euro. Google confirms (Table turbot is 89 euro, random L'Ambroisie menu on Tripadvisor has the cheapest dish at 98 euro, but going up to 210 for the truffle-foie tart). Certainly, my credit card statements suggest a dramatic difference between the two.

 

It's all kind of beside the point. Again, limited sample, but Table was a really lovely place with world class ingredients and a chef with phenomenal taste and the good sense not to muck anything up. But it's not comparable (nor should it be comparable) to the technical magnum opus that L'Ambroisie churns outs, which is manifestly unfussy. Each dish has no more than three or four components, everything is basically organized around a central protein, cooked traditionally, there are very few garnishes, etc.

 

Like I can understand why one might balk at the somber, formal setting and prefer to hunker down at Table for a more casual experience - I might and often do make the same call, if not at quite such a rarefied level - but there's a lot of work being done here by cultural factors, and levels of comfort with different kinds of experiences.

I'm just sayin', even Pacaud just wants to eat a sliced tomato in this heat.

 

Can we get a few of our Parisian friends chatting here? I know this has been a tough forum for a long time, but it would be great to see some new ideas and perspectives from people who know what they're talking about (Sneak, you're gonna have to come to Paris to update your POV).

Wtf? I’ve been to both of those restaurants (and a bunch of the others on this list. responding to a legitimate post with insults is why discussion dies around here.

I’m not insulting you, Adrian. I’m responding to the numerous people who have privately messaged me and said they will no longer post here because of how they have been treated. We may all have been to these restaurants a few times and I might even live here right now, but there are people reading and who used to post that have a huge amount of expertise. I’d like to create space for them too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I mean telling someone the description of a meal they ate is gag inducing is just fine, but being told you're factually wrong about something is reason to storm off and keep ranting about it to everyone forever :)

 

I do agree it's better to talk to people who actually have dined at the places discussed and who don't have an agenda whereby only a specific class of restaurant is even worth discussing.

My intent was not to insult Adrian (I’m not even sure who you mean got insulted and stopped posting, there are hundreds of people that could refer to). In fact, I intended to write more in response to his point later. But yes, I am trying to encourage some folks who have been to these places to join the conversation and hoping we can create a reasonable environment for them. No Parisian is talking or thinking about Clamato at all, in my experience. There are many newer places to discuss, but few people to discuss them with. I got two suggestions from a friend at lunch that I had never heard of and despite all the raves in the American food press and a very frequent schedule of restaurant going she had never been to Mokonuts before. I appreciate the point of view of everyone whose mobile number is in my cell phone on this forum, including Adrian, but I would really love to expand this conversation to some really great people who are hiding.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...