Jump to content

LES/EV nightlife under attack


Recommended Posts

I hate EVG and everything it stands for and think it's a non-trivial force for making the city worse. It doesn't matter. It's just one of those rules of the internet. You don't go about trying to figure out who pseudonymous people are unless you're a complete asshole.

 

Maybe Maurer is clueless. Whatever. I'm sorry, I'm not generally a fan of people getting vitriol and scorn on the internet, and I'm sure the reporter didn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter, but this is necessary for enforcing the relevant norms. Of course nobody likes getting abuse heaped on them online, and it is quite unpleasant, but this is how social norms are enforced, yes?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 808
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Suddenly the booming nightlife scene below and above Houston on the East Side isn't popular any more. At least with some local residents, who have organized a coalition to agitate the licensing autho

I lived through a lot of this in Soho, London in the late 1980s and 1990s. It is infuriating when laundromats close down to be replaced by identikit sushi bars and lounges. But when you choose to li

E-mail just received from an activist:     The 7-Eleven will replace Bar on A. I thought we wanted fewer bars.   (Of course, the serious point is that if you drive out bars, they won't be rep

Are you arguing that "don't doxx people" is a bad social norm? There's pretty broad consensus among people interested in online discourse that doxxing is absolutely wrong in all cases - since it's something that happens online, it's relative easy to police, moreso than the nasty packages people get in the mail, or the bomb threats that get called in on them afterward.

 

Are you saying that this sort of online shaming is somehow wrong? It's hard to be consistent here. I don't know there's that many people who would equally condemn what happened to Memories Pizza, to Tim Hunt, to Brendan Eich, to Justine Sacco, and to these B&B people here. Whatever, though - there's a difference between an unpleasant tactic and a morally objectionable one, and it's not about whether it's used by or against reactionaries or progressives.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this constitutes "on-line shaming." It might be counter to his wishes, and you might argue his relevance doesn't pass a threshold where there is a public value to unmasking him, but this isn't a doxxing. If EV Grieve actually had any power, I'd argue revealing who they are is good thing.

 

So I'm in the "this guy doesn't matter, let him stay anonymous" camp but I don't think someone who disagrees with me is morally problematic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't the case of a source requesting anonymity. That's different. This is like writing a story revealing where Thomas Pynchon goes for breakfast (not to place EVG on that level). The result may be discourteous, boring, or upsetting to Pynchon, his readers, and friends. But there's no breach of journalistic ethics.

 

Ditto Stone's example.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wilfrid keeps talking journalismese, and taion keeps talking internetese. They're talking about different things. It's actually interesting to contemplate which set of standards applies, and why.

 

I tend to agree with Bonner that this isn't doxxing in the strict sense, although I do think that, on the whole, internet anonymity ought to be respected.

Link to post
Share on other sites

semantics. unmasking someone who writes a public blog for sake of unmasking them isn't really a doxxing to me. They aren't doing it to shame him, or reveal some terrible secret, or make it so he loses his job.

This doesn't make sense. The whole point of having a pseudonym is to be able to do stuff like publish stuff online without having to worry about personal retribution. You never know which way the Twitter mobs will go these days, so it's better to just preserve the value of pseudonyms.

 

It's only when you have something worth saying that people don't want to hear that anonymity serves a purpose.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As the story noted, EVGrieve has itself frequently been responsible for "outing" people who'd apparently gone to some lengths not to be outed. I therefore think he had about the weakest conceivable case for arguing that anonymity is a standard Internet courtesy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Disagree short of very extreme scenarios. Newsworthiness is not enough. Pseudonymity is one of the foundations of free discourse on the internet. If we had a societal norm that people didn't face repercussions for unpopular political beliefs, then it'd be different, but we don't, so this is the best we've got.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Pseudonymity is one of the foundations of free discourse on the internet.

The Internet didn't invent the pseudonym. It's an ancient practice. When you make yourself a public figure, people are going to try to figure out who you are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As the story noted, EVGrieve has itself frequently been responsible for "outing" people who'd apparently gone to some lengths not to be outed. I therefore think he had about the weakest conceivable case for arguing that anonymity is a standard Internet courtesy.

"Doxxing" would be if I researched and disclosed the identity of taion, Sneakeater, mongo_jones, or someone like that. I don't think EVGrieve is entitled to the same level of privacy that they are.

It doesn't matter. In the same sense that one should also not be intolerant toward bigots. Or whatever.

 

His privacy matters specifically because he's writing publicly about stuff that people care about. Nobody cares who "taion" because "taion" doesn't say anything of any import. And whether he respects others' privacy is irrelevant - we got rid of outlawry in RL contexts some centuries ago, as I recall.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...