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I'm sorry your fifty restaurants weren't enjoyable. To the extent you've described it, the food (dry fish and mediocre kebabs?) doesn't sound much like the food in the capital - but I think you said these were remote resorts.

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I'm sorry your fifty restaurants weren't enjoyable. To the extent you've described it, the food (dry fish and mediocre kebabs?) doesn't sound much like the food in the capital - but I think you said these were remote resorts.

 

They're not particularly remote. They were in tourist areas or in towns like Antalya, Ayvalik, Dalaman, which are near tourist areas.

 

I'm not saying all the food was unenjoyable. One adjusts to what is available and I can enjoy a kebab just as I can enjoy a burger. One or two dishes stood out-as I said these were often in retaurants behind the waterfront tourist traps which served Turkish versions of tagines (although they're not called that). This was easily the best food that I came across, but as I said, I often had to argue (good naturedly) with the restaurant to get them to heat the food up to piping hot level.

 

There is also a very marked tendency for restaurants to have food that doesn't HAVE to be cooked there and then (like fish) to be standing around all day on display in chiller cabinets. By the time the late evening comes some of these are very tired and sorry looking indeed, and often the oil they contain has separated and slicked out the dish. More preparation to order would improve things considerably.

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There is also a very marked tendency for restaurants to have food that doesn't HAVE to be cooked there and then (like fish) to be standing around all day on display in chiller cabinets. By the time the late evening comes some of these are very tired and sorry looking indeed, and often the oil they contain has separated and slicked out the dish. More preparation to order would improve things considerably.

 

This may be the first fair observation you've made on this thread - Turkish restaurants (not just in Turkey) are notorious for their love of refrigeration, which means salads/spreads are often served too cold to feel any flavor.

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Even then there is an issue with getting the food served piping hot-a concept both Greeks and Turks appear to have aproblem with

 

Not considered a priority (or even particularly desireable) in many non-western cuisines. I think Westerners care about this mainly because the food they like to eat tends to contain more animal fats and so tends to congeal unappealingly as it cools. Again these are your own cultural standards, not universal ones. OTOH if I got something cold out of the fridge I would consider it bad -- it should be at room temperature.

 

Okay, let me clarify. In the summer, most people did not have air conditioning so women would typically get up very early, do all the hot cooking in the morning while it was still cool outside, and then let things sit around until lunch time, when it was all eaten at room-temperature. In the States, everywhere you go is very intensely air-conditioned so you can heat up the kitchen all you want. Heck, you can wear a sweater and eat short ribs in July in most American restaurants. Personally, I prefer less air conditioning and more seasonal eating. But progress is progress, I suppose. I realize I am talking mostly from experience of Lebanese eating habits here and not turkish, but -- my grandfather was conscripted (involuntarily) into the ottoman army and was a big fan of ataturk after WWI so I assume there are some cultural similarities.

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Not considered a priority (or even particularly desireable) in many non-western cuisines. I think Westerners care about this mainly because the food they like to eat tends to contain more animal fats and so tends to congeal unappealingly as it cools. Again these are your own cultural standards, not universal ones. OTOH if I got something cold out of the fridge I would consider it bad -- it should be at room temperature.

 

There are many foods that "Westerners" (weren't Greeks Westerners last time we looked? :lol: ) do eat cold or at room temperature but insist on other foods hot. I'm not sure it's an East West thing. In fact it may be a personal thing to me rather than a cultural thing. I find many restaurants in the West do not serve food up hot enough either.

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Er...no. I said nothing about "restructuring Tukish food culture". I know I woudn't have done because I haven't a clue what it means

 

I was voicing my opinions of restaurants-of which I have visited around 50.

 

I'm glad you now think that that's fine :lol:

 

You know you can dodge all you like, but at the end of the day there is no substancial describtion of the 50 or so meals that you ate. Basically the thread is springboard for some facial thread about how X cusine could be improved if only they didn't develop a nice restaurant culture and didn't excude experienced diners.

 

And it would be a bit of a long bow to draw to consider Greece as "Western" Europe either culturally or geographically.

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You know you can dodge all you like, but at the end of the day there is no substancial describtion of the 50 or so meals that you ate. Basically the thread is springboard for some facial thread about how X cusine could be improved if only they didn't develop a nice restaurant culture and didn't excude experienced diners.

 

And it would be a bit of a long bow to draw to consider Greece as "Western" Europe either culturally or geographically.

 

You wanna description of the 50 meals I ate? :(

 

And who said Greece was in "Western Europe"? I said Greeks were "Westerners". Like Aussies :lol:

 

This is like slogging through porridge.

 

OK OK. I finally admit defeat :lol: :(

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You wanna description of the 50 meals I ate? :lol:

 

And who said Greece was in "Western Europe"? I said Greeks were "Westerners" :(

 

This is like slogging through porridge.

 

OK OK. I finally admit defeat :( :D

 

It would be nice to have some type of detailed descriptions of the food you ate, yes.

 

I believe that you made you comments about blah blah Greeks Westerners etc in reference to Behemoth's comments about 'non-western cuisines'. Were you suggesting that Greek food culture is predominately Western European then? :(

 

Funny, Behemoth had made a very interesting observation on the food of the region, I thought that this was the sort of thing that you were looking for in this discussion?

 

I'm British now. :lol:

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Funny, Behemoth had made a very interesting observation on the food of the region, I thought that this was the sort of thing that you were looking for in this discussion?

 

 

 

Which one-the one about the fat or the one about the air conditioning?

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I'm really touched by your concerns for black and brown people. :lol:

 

Do you want to discuss this with actual black and brown people who don't feel like we're being held back because white people can't agree on how to talk about us? I know a forum (not eg) festering with lots of brown and black folks many from the regions you are discussing.

 

The forum also includes members who live in Turkey, are Turkish, have traveled to Turkey throughout the years, and who have written extensively about Turkish and Ottoman cuisine.

 

 

You forgot to mention the group of Latin American journalists, historians, anthropologists, food writers, etc who will be joining that board soon.

 

I'm sure they would love to read all about Tuckerman's take on South American *cuisine*. :lol:

 

Yeah, Tuckerman I keep reading this thread. It's fun.

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. Were you suggesting that Greek food culture is predominately Western European then? :(

 

 

 

 

Yes

 

 

 

I'm sure they would love to read all about Tuckerman's take on South American *cuisine*. :lol:

 

 

 

Well I've just checked and THAT thread had over 8500 hits. Funny how soooo many people get sooo exasperated with me but just can't stop sneaking a peak eh? :lol:

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Yes

Well I've just checked and THAT thread had over 8500 hits. Funny how soooo many people get sooo exasperated with me but just can't stop sneaking a peak eh? :lol:

 

Repeating outrageously incorrect claims while calling everyone idiots/retards/pathetic apparently sells very well.

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Repeating outrageously incorrect claims while calling everyone idiots/retards/pathetic apparently sells very well.

 

Jeez, so much falsity in one short sentence. Let me point it out to you.

 

No I did not make "outrageous claims". Please point out a single "outrageous claim" that I made. Claiming Turkish restaurants to be mediocre counts as an "outrageous claim" in your book, does it? You do understand that making a claim that you do not agree with is not the same as making an "outrageous claim", do you? :lol:

 

Neither did I call anyone a "retard". Please point out where I called anyone a "retard". That's just another straight lie, like the claim that I called "foreign food awful". "Retard" is not I word I ever use and has clearly come straight out of your head.

 

I did not call "everyone" idiotic and pathetic. I called some posts idiotic for claiming that criticism of Turkish restaurants and Mumbai taxi drivers was tantamount to claiming that all those in Turkey and the developing world were somehow "inferior" to those in the developed world. What I called "pathetic" was the constant attempt by some people to drag the thread back to a discussion about me personally, IMO because those people clearly have no knowledge and experience whatsoever of Turkish restaurants or cuisine, so cannot argue the issue on its merits-just as your very post does now, in fact

 

I was prepared to shut up on this thread but as long as you go on making false statements and allegations about me and what I've said I will continue to respond to show that they are false..

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