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Bonefish Grill-Westminster, CO


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If you want to talk ethics, doesn’t this board and most like it have a disclosure policy? So if you work at a place that you are writing positive things about, you might want to make it clear in that post that you also get your paycheck from them. That’s ethics, honey.

 

I do peruse other forums besides the Southwest, but no-one can conceivably read every post in every forum and immediately know that when beans writes about what a fantastic place Bonefish is that there might be a tiny conflict of interest there.

 

Does anyone on this board (including beans) visit every establishment they post about three times like the pro critics before posting anything about their experience? Of course not, particularly since many on this board travel to other cities and post about their meals shortly after their return. If the California folks give me some great tips on places in SF (which they have), do I have to go back three times to each one of them before I can post about my impressions? Please. This board would wither up and die if that were the case. No-one's confusing us with the New York Times or Food and Wine.

 

Sounds like you really drank the Kool-Aid they gave you, beans. I know you want to be proud of a place you’re working at, but try not to take corporate training manuals so seriously.

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This is a copy and paste from a question on the NJ board. in April.."Is BFG decent?" My answer:

 

 

 

 

It's decent, barely.

 

I've been to one in SC (parents choice). It's not bad. Nice atmosphere. It's ok if you stick to plain grillled items. I wouldn't go back unless I wanted to be a good son and they insisted but I'd try to push for elsewhere.

 

It looks like there's a Legal Seafood nearby..also a chain...but not a megachain like Outback. I haven't been to that specific Legal's but I'd choose them over Bonefish..far better food.

 

bonefishgrill.com

 

edit..I wouldn't review it as harshly as the original poster...and I sort of assumed that Beans had some affiliation..due to the detail of his post...but any affiliation should be disclosed. I recall being impressed by their wine list and a sauce they put over a fried shrimp app as being inedible unless you scraped the sauce off. I would still rate it at the higher end of chain restaurants. Better than RL/Olive Garden.(though I've never been to either).not as good as Palm/Mortons/Cap Grill..which are all higher priced. The SC BFG was priced in line with other local restaurants. I can't comment on Denver pricing.

 

It does amaze me at the popularity of this chain...even in areas which are coastal and have great local seafood.

Edited by 9lives
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I have no dog in this fight - but I do agree that if somebody works for a restaurant (or whatever) being discussed, they need to say that.

 

Beans, if you work for the place, you should disclose that.

 

 

Ummm, I believe that has been established omni. Should I add it to my tag line to please you? It is on the boards, if in question, do the search yourself to know your audience.

 

 

 

Duh.

 

fin.

 

 

Anyone respect that I have forthright stated I have intimate knowledge of their operations? Ever consider that an employer may be checking this out themselves, thereby compromising continued, future employment? Or is that too much consideration to ethics or to another message board member? geesz.

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This is a copy and paste from a question on the NJ board. in April.."Is BFG decent?" My answer:

It's decent, barely.

 

So you weren’t personally attacked as being irresponsible, nasty, snotty, snobby, condescending, rude, unethical, and a lollygagger by one of their employees for finding this chain a bit lacking in excitement like I was? (There were probably more insults in beans' posts somewhere directed towards me, but I lost count.)

 

It's funny that I can't POKE FUN at a chain on a foodie board without being branded as Satan's Mistress.

 

I should not have even mentioned BFG (which I am now personally referring to as BFD) since the old adage about there being no such thing as bad publicity is probably true. People might stop by just to see if their experience will suck as much as mine did. They didn't seem to have a shortage of people lining up to be herded through their barn like cattle though. MOO.

 

Beansie, you work at Bonefish and live in Cleveland? I'm sorry. Do you need a hug, sweetie?

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Wow, they make their own ganache. They melt chocolate and mix it with cream. I wish I had a resto like that around my town. That's pretty impressive.

 

 

Umm, they could splash on some commercial Hershey's "chocolate" syrup instead, okay? At least some person in our day shift prep takes the imported chocolate, measures and mixes. How many chains really do that?

 

Go on and dog pile y'all. Tis the cool thing to do these days I see. Guess I really haven't missed posting.

 

Let the belittling continue! :(

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Go on and dog pile y'all. Tis the cool thing to do these days I see. Guess I really haven't missed posting.

 

Wow, Beansfish.

 

You take all this stuff so personally. After all, aren't we talking about a single review of restaurant that is 1300 miles away?

 

The excuse that a restaurant has only been open for a few months is weak. Do they charge less during the first few months since the experience won't be as good?

 

Most critics wait 8-12 weeks before they review.

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So you weren’t personally attacked as being irresponsible, nasty, snotty, snobby, condescending, rude, unethical, and a lollygagger by one of their employees for finding this chain a bit lacking in excitement like I was? (There were probably more insults in beans' posts somewhere directed towards me, but I lost count.)

 

There is merit to what you have posted to what response you may have garnered.

 

 

 

It's funny that I can't POKE FUN at a chain on a foodie board without being branded as Satan's Mistress.

 

Satan's Mistress is your own dubbing, which I find amusing. And since when was this a foodie board? I distinctly remember it being touted as a lifestyle board.

 

 

As to the rest of your post, I find no urge to dignify your personal assertions to me, myself or where I may or may not reside, as you may not be welcome to have that information or knowledge.

 

 

Address the issues on merit.

 

So the server spilled your oil on the cotton? Big whippy skippy.

 

So the place is designed and timed for high volume/turning tables? Good. More money in everyone's pockets and suited for those that eat decently, for a fair price, with good product in a time conscious time table. Doesn't anyone else have a busy life? A place such as a chain resto isn't exactly where I'd plan a whole evening's event!

 

So the music wasn't to your taste? OMG, how awful!!!

 

So you didn't bother to read that there are three wine lists? Chain dining is, by its own nature, to appeal to the masses. Sorry, but the masses still drink white zin, and good for them. White zin producers have families to feed too!

 

What other issue did you have that you couldn't respond to on the merits? The crab cakes being hand formed with no filler that broke apart immediately? How dreadful! There's nothing but *real* lump crab meat in there!

 

 

Aw, but go on and belittle and make fun of an establishment that appears to being succeeding and growing.

 

So now you back off with a diminutive of simply "poking fun"? Haa haa? Giggle, giggle? That's a gas! Funny how you can't see that is precisely how I've responded to your fatal flaws with the restaurant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pfft. :(

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beans, what to you would comprise valid criticism of this (or any other) restaurant? as far as i can tell from your points every possible negative statement is apparently defused by the fact that the restaurant is making money and appealing to the masses. and since, as far as i can tell, you're not involved with this location and have not eaten there your "intimate" familiarity with the chain where you are counts for very little. all restaurant critics, after all, know not to write about an outpost/branch of a restaurant 1000 miles away from the one they've eaten at, even if they have the same menu and corporate philosophy.

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Wow, Beansfish.

 

You take all this stuff so personally. After all, aren't we talking about a single review of restaurant that is 1300 miles away?

 

The excuse that a restaurant has only been open for a few months is weak. Do they charge less during the first few months since the experience won't be as good?

 

Most critics wait 8-12 weeks before they review.

 

 

Not personal, but interested that the one having the problem with the restaurant has experienced something that may be their own inablity to communicate and/or interact.

 

Someone team bussed the used silver, another food running doesn't know that but is expected to have, and how awful she had to actually ask (sorry for the split infinitive) for a new piece of silver! I find it all amusing (but interesting to note the level of expectation).

 

I pointed to the issue of how some are percieving moderate to better, casual dining in chains are now being held to uber fine dining measures, when that simply isn't their niche.

 

Every problem she pointed to having was such a catastrophe wasn't it?

 

I take this same position with any diner in any resto, so don't make this a personal issue. I simply stated I have intimate knowledge of the operation of that restaurant, so perhaps some insight would be interesting/helpful?

 

As far as the 8-12 weeks a critic takes to give the time for the restaurant, true. I'd have to check but I believe that store has been open less than 2 months, which equates less than that 8-12 weeks. Nice try though! :( I know of another store that has been open 3 months, and they still are new in many of the operational/corporate cultural aspects. Isn't that true of most other sorts of situations?

 

Did you not read the point I made that the servers (and quite possibly some of those on prep and line cooks) are learning to spot the differences between a piece of halibut from chillean sea bass? Throw in grouper.

 

Very different fish, but not having handled, sold or presented them takes training, education and knowledgable experience.

 

As for the expectation of cheaper prices I won't even address. That is so off the wall lame I can't! Every restaurant has new staff or is actually brand spanking new. Do you demand a discount then too? :(

 

 

 

 

 

edit: kant tipe

Edited by beans
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Doesn't anyone appreciate the point I made about even a *paid* restaurant critic has the sense not to rip one on a resto that is in its infant stages of opening. Or does that even matter to you vehemently aggressive sorts? Irresponsiblity! Ethics! Anyone in the biz understands they are still with training wheels, so give them the chance to be on their own two feet. I think it is the general tone of exceedingly high expectations. So who made those expectations? You did yourself, hence from a standpoint you were inflexible to go with the flow and in a manner, let your ownself down! :(:

 

Beans,

 

It's your lucky day. I'm the restaurant critic (paid!) for a magazine in Denver, the Colorado editor for the Zagat Surveys, and I also write about Denver restaurants for myriad national pubs. Bonefish Grill opened in Westminster at the end of March, which, if my calculations are correct, means that Robin waited two months before visiting and subsequently posting her review on this board. After two months, I would hardly classify Bonefish Grill as a restaurant "in its infant stages of opening." I'm not here to debate whether or not Bonefish Grill is good, bad, or indifferent, my feelings on chain restaurants, or whether Robin is or is not a food snob, but the fact of the matter is that when a restaurant opens its doors and is charging money for their product, it is fair game for a review -- like it or not. I always wait at least two months before writing a full fledged critical review (although I do write "profiles" of new restaurants), because, frankly, to do it any sooner would be a disservice to my readers, given the changes that inevitably take place in the first few months of a restaurant's debut. But Robin needn't worry about timelines. She's a consumer, not a food critic, and there's absolutely no reason why she shouldn't feel free to post her dining out experiences whenever she damn well chooses. If everyone on this board (or any other) abided by your silly rule, there wouldn't be much to discuss, would there?

 

If you want to talk "ethics," then you should have absolutely disclosed that you were employed by Bonefish Grill. It makes perfect sense to me that you would defend your place of employment -- that's credible -- so why not lay the truth on the line from the beginning -- especially if you're so proud of working there?

 

And let's be honest. There is no such thing as a perfect restaurant. If you don't believe that Bonefish Grill (or any other restaurant) can benefit from improvement, however slight, then I suggest you take your beans and build a hill to another career, preferably one that doesn't invite criticism. It's fine to have an ego, but in the "biz," those that achieve the most success have perfected the art of checking their egos at the door. Humilty and a modicum of modesty wil get you much further than a halo.

 

Lori

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There were no strong feelings from anyone after my post.

 

The thread is still there on NJ board. I responded to a request and would not have posted on the place if someone didn't specifically ask about it.

 

 

 

So you weren’t personally attacked as being irresponsible, nasty, snotty, snobby, condescending, rude, unethical, and a lollygagger by one of their employees for finding this chain a bit lacking in excitement like I was? (There were probably more insults in beans' posts somewhere directed towards me, but I lost count.)

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Beans,

 

It's your lucky day. I'm the restaurant critic (paid!) for a magazine in Denver, the Colorado editor for the Zagat Surveys, and I also write about Denver restaurants for myriad national pubs. Bonefish Grill opened in Westminster at the end of March, which, if my calculations are correct, means that Robin waited two months before visiting and subsequently posting her review on this board. After two months, I would hardly classify Bonefish Grill as a restaurant "in its infant stages of opening." I'm not here to debate whether or not Bonefish Grill is good, bad, or indifferent, my feelings on chain restaurants, or whether Robin is or is not a food snob, but the fact of the matter is that when a restaurant opens its doors and is charging money for their product, it is fair game for a review -- like it or not. I always wait at least two months before writing a full fledged critical review (although I do write "profiles" of new restaurants), because, frankly, to do it any sooner would be a disservice to my readers, given the changes that inevitably take place in the first few months of a restaurant's debut. But Robin needn't worry about timelines. She's a consumer, not a food critic, and there's absolutely no reason why she shouldn't feel free to post her dining out experiences whenever she damn well chooses. If everyone on this board (or any other) abided by your silly rule, there wouldn't be much to discuss, would there?

 

I wasn't exactly sure of the precise date of that store's opening.

 

But I did pick on the timeline as there is reason and rationale behind it. Isn't there an ethical rule about posting slamming reviews on message boards? Or am I confusing this with an eGullet rule?

 

If you want to talk "ethics," then you should have absolutely disclosed that you were employed by Bonefish Grill. It makes perfect sense to me that you would defend your place of employment -- that's credible -- so why not lay the truth on the line from the beginning -- especially if you're so proud of working there?

 

This has nothing to do whether or not I am currently employed by said restaurant. I disclosed I have intimate knowledge of the operation of the restaurant. Pride has nothing to do with it. I have been in the food and beverage biz for over a dozen years, and find guest expectations always an interesting arena. Besides, much of the information I have presented is right on their own menu, on their website or would be provided upon asking any server at the restaurant.

 

 

And let's be honest. There is no such thing as a perfect restaurant. If you don't believe that Bonefish Grill (or any other restaurant) can benefit from improvement,

 

Did I ever assert/disagree with that? Did I even mention that at all?

 

 

however slight, then I suggest you take your beans and build a hill to another career, preferably one that doesn't invite criticism.

 

Please refrain from making personal assertions as to my career. That's where your credibility wanes and it is something of a personal nature on your part to trounce upon another in a not so flattering manner.

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beans, what to you would comprise valid criticism of this (or any other) restaurant? as far as i can tell from your points every possible negative statement is apparently defused by the fact that the restaurant is making money and appealing to the masses. and since, as far as i can tell, you're not involved with this location and have not eaten there your "intimate" familiarity with the chain where you are counts for very little. all restaurant critics, after all, know not to write about an outpost/branch of a restaurant 1000 miles away from the one they've eaten at, even if they have the same menu and corporate philosophy.

 

 

Well, all the negative statements (I believe, but would have to take the time to re-read) are about the chain restaurant environment. That is why I noted my interest in the chains that are elevating their game now being held to uber fine dining standards -- i.e., the comment of a wine list containing two white zinfandel offerings being trouble! (how dreadful!!! :( ) Especially when this diner didn't note the featured wine list for the evening, nor the reserve wine list.

 

As far as valid criticism (of those I can remember):

 

- the server was anxious while doing their bread presentation, therefore spilling oil on the cotton. Server, calm down and relax next time!

 

- the silver was removed with the previous courses. A server with a better eye on the small but important details needs to be sharper. Good though on the team bussing. :(

 

- the salad plates still on the table when the entrees arrived. A visual check as to the diner's progress should have been called by the expo and timing adjusted accordingly. However when that ticket is up to the max time to sell the entrees, the food is run so as not to disrupt the rest of the diningroom's meals or kitchen's timing. That isn't anything different in any other restaurant and certainly not rocket science.

 

- guest displeasure of product. Guest effectively communicating same so that something else can be done to rectify, replace or remove from the bill. (not enough crab in the stuffing? Ask about the menu specs for the portion to understand that upcharge for that product. Not happy with the flaky crab cake? Ask and understand about its preparation!)

 

- guest displeasure of music selection. ??? What can be done about that? What if the whole diningroom decided they hated each and every choice another made? I suppose a simple apology that it wasn't to their taste is about all a restauranteur could do, no?

 

- guest dislike for two white zins on the wine list. ??? Oh well. There were two other wine lists to choose from. :(

 

The intimate knowledge stems from the sneaky, ever so clever rlm's unearthing a deeply buried post wherein I disclosed where I was employed. It is a corporate chain where everything at every store, operationally, is the same. Exactly why I wrote earlier that if one were to leave St. Pete, Florida's store to walk into Westminster, Colorado's store, they wouldn't miss a single beat. The only difference would be locale.

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